Your B2B Videos Are Boring. Here's How to Fix Them.

Sandi Green (00:01.956)
Hey everyone, welcome back to Chocolate Pill Podcast. I'm Sandi Green, co-founder of Miracle Max, and with me is Matt Cancino, founder of Cult Concepts. Hey Matt, how are ya?

Matt Cancino (00:14.786)
Hey Sandi, pleasure to be here. Thanks so much for having me on the show.

Sandi Green (00:19.354)
Yeah, yeah. So Matt and I met through mutual contacts. And the reason why I was so excited to get him on the podcast today is Matt and Colt Concepts, they're storytellers. And as as you guys know, we love telling a good story. but there's lots of examples of bad storytelling out there or no storytelling out there. So we wanted to kind of explore the topic of storytelling through multimedia today, especially for B2B.

tech companies because there's a lot of them out there. It's a lot of products out there. There's lots of lots of money floating around, you know, with with products that are growing. But what we what we keep seeing is, hey, are you are you actually getting to the audience with a story that they'll remember that'll resonate with them? So with that, like let's get into it. So Matt, how do you think about storytelling when you're speaking with a client and they're looking to

you know, maybe maybe get the spread the word about their business or, you know, launch a new product. Like what's a like what's your what's your approach generally when it comes to storytelling, especially when you're when you're looking at video with Cult Concept.

Matt Cancino (01:24.77)
Yeah, I I think we always start with the with who we're talking to, right? Like we always try and figure out who exactly it is that we're trying to tell a story to. And I I think a a practical way to think about that, why we do it that way, would be if you're telling a story to a baby and you're telling a story to a teenager and then also an adult, you're gonna tell the story just a little bit different. So it's always important to have your audience in mind.

before you really start to dive deep into storytelling. And then it's and then I I start to think about why we're doing it. Right. So once I know who we're talking to or trying to tell a story to, then I think, okay, why are we doing this? Is it to drive more sales? Is it to drive awareness that it will eventually lead to sales? But really we just want to get the entire macro story out there. And I do like to think in terms of like macro and micro because I think that from a macro scale

Right, there's usually a main storyline and then there's micro moments in that storyline that you could then use as specific tactics to d to accomplish your goals. So I don't know if that was like a weird lawyer thing that you know, like how they like dance around like like answers. How was that, Sandy?

Sandi Green (02:43.46)
That was good. You didn't you didn't dance at all. That was good that was good good explanation. Hey Chris.

Matt Cancino (02:46.136)
Okay.

Chris Frank (02:49.3)
Hey, sorry guys.

Sandi Green (02:51.116)
No worries, we're recording. So we're j we jumped right into it.

Matt Cancino (02:51.191)
No worries.

We we

Chris Frank (02:56.958)
Yeah.

Matt Cancino (02:57.118)
Yeah, we hit the record button. We got a little excited, but so good to see ya. Should we stop recording for a second or nah, right? Yeah.

Sandi Green (03:03.458)
No, we'll just keep going. We we can that's what that's what editing, that's what editing is for. So so an observation that I've that that I've had with with with founders and with kind of the early stage B2B tech companies that that I've worked with for for years now is a lot of them are especially when it comes to tech companies, a lot of them are you know founded by engineers, to no one's surprise. They've built a thing. It's it you know, it's it's novel.

Chris Frank (03:05.438)
No, you're good.

Matt Cancino (03:09.886)
Absolutely.

Sandi Green (03:32.266)
It solves a problem, but sometimes the thing that's lost, I think, in the story is why did they why did they build it? You know, beyond just, hey, it solves the problem and why should their audience care? And that to me are the two bits that get sort of left out of the stories. And that to me is part of the reason why some video content especially can fall flat. It can feel like an explainer video and not so much a better expression of a brand or a better expression of like a problem and solution.

And with all the content that's out there, I feel like that's the kind of content, if it's just the what, it just it just falls to the wayside. It doesn't, it doesn't resonate. So Chris, since you are or di in in-house demand gen expert, how do you think about and sort of how do you approach kind of c consulting with clients or getting them to think a little bit differently about what they capture and sort of how you use that for from demand, so just so stories resonate in the right places.

Chris Frank (04:14.054)
Yeah.

Chris Frank (04:28.202)
Yeah, it's it's really fascinating. I just wrote an article about this actually. the the interesting part that I see is when when founders first start out, there's an entirely different demand generation motion that they go through than a marketing team doesn't. And so what happens with them is that they

What happens is that they they're able to in the in the pursuit of a product market fit, right? Well often it happens is that they'll go out, they'll get expert feedback, they'll they'll go out and they'll go through their VC network to to do demand generation. That's fundamentally different than what a marketing team can do. And so what happens is they get pulled further and further down the funnel and they'll they'll end up getting pulled in.

Especially founder-led sales, they'll end up getting pulled in to conversations that are pretty deep, right? They'll go through feature functionality, objections, you know, all of those things that are further down the funnel. And so by the time they hire a product marketer, by the time they get to that point where they need to start to scale or get out of founder-led sales.

Chris Frank (05:40.314)
messaging that gets approved is is typically technical. And so there they don't it doesn't really necessarily resonate in a in a way that's goes back to the problem, right? That goes back to the thing that they try to solve. And so that's the that's the thing that I would say is that there's a there's a disconnect there. And it shows up in video. It it it always shows up in your explainer videos, right? How many how many times Matt have you gone out and you've you try to do business with a company and you go, this is this is not a great story.

When you go and you try to do the video, right?

Matt Cancino (06:11.714)
Yeah. All all the time, honestly. I think specifically when it comes to video content, oftentimes I see that founders they'll just they'll they'll they'll have an explainer video, but it's usually like really boring and if it's not a if they don't have a good creative team, it's usually like those little like they were really, really popular in like two thousand and like fourteen, I think. And they were they're just like those like that those like explainer like like like

almost hand drawn in a way, but not like they're just I don't even know the name of it. They're like little doodle bobs, you know, and the they're like doodle explainers trying to like and they'll be like, we we have this great video and y you watch the video and or it's that or it's just like some cool music with like a text overlay and like a bouncing ball or something like that. That's like, you know, like the and then like it

some kind of feature and it's like feature, feature, feature, feature. And I don't believe it. You know, I I don't ever believe any of that stuff. And it's you know, so what we do is a lot of organic, authentic content. Like we show up, we shoot people first content. So a lot of the work that we do is on the organic side of the world. And then we can take that organic media and turn it into paid, which is a tactic. And I don't really want to get into tactics 'cause I don't think we're there yet.

But but yes, I see a lot of a lot of video content that falls flat because it doesn't have the right intention behind it or it's just like I needed an explainer video and it's like feature r throw up all over the place, if that makes any sense.

Chris Frank (07:52.382)
Yeah. It well it's back to what you said, Sandi, just about why care? Right? Why care about that? And if you're not speaking directly to the person, why why should I stop and look at anything you have to say, right?

Sandi Green (08:05.626)
Yeah. And I feel like it's gotten it's gotten worse, I think, in the l in the last couple of years, just because now, you know, content is so much easier to produce now. It's cheaper to produce. We have more channels for it. We have, you know, AI, which is probably a whole other conversation where you can you can create you can create things just at at a volume that is that is almost dizzying. But that also means you can create a lot of content that's terrible, that doesn't speak to impact or pain. to me, I think it I mean, my my view on it is the more stuff you make that

that doesn't really explain the why and doesn't really explain like the the impact of what you do or why you did it, you're actually degrading your brand in a way. So I'd rather see less. I'd rather see two videos, one of them being, you know, the founder or maybe the person who andor the person who built it to talk about like why I built why I s why I'm so passionate about this problem and why I built it. Like I'd I'd watch that all day long over, you know, to Matt's point, the the the bouncing ball AI generated or even, you know, the old, you know,

2014 animation thing that animates a scenario that yeah, that like is not it's like a it's like an animating a animating a scenario that is not real serves no one. So doing a talking head where there's a real person saying, Hey, we experienced this problem when, you know, years ago and we we set out to solve it, and here is why. Like to me, that's a more emotionally resonant story, and that's a thing that I think more people will will will resonate toward or or kind of gravitate

Matt Cancino (09:04.76)
Cats, whatever yes.

Sandi Green (09:31.617)
More toward at this point.

Matt Cancino (09:34.766)
I think B2B brands in in general when they're trying to relate to people, they're they see it as like, I'm a B2B brand, right? Like it's like at the end of the day, you're still selling to a person. You're still selling to an end customer. And that person needs to know, like, and trust your brand. So if they go on your website or if they go on your YouTube channel and it's a bunch of Fiverr animations, thank you for for that's what it's called.

You know, is that gonna make that person like you? Right? Or if another maybe not so great example is what associations are you making inadvertently? Like are you just jumping on any Tom Dick and Harry's podcast? You know, or are you making strategic associations with people that make sense for what it is that you're trying to say? Like I don't I I I

really try not to hop on any podcast. I mean I might get excited and be like, this is cool. But then I really look into it and it's like, wait a second, I think they're trying to sell me something. Right? Or like it's just a podcast that they have for no reason. So so I think the associations when it comes to storytelling, when it comes to building your brand are really, really important. And I actually like talking about brand really quick and I would love to get your guys' take on this. When you talk about brand, I like to actually

you could take that word away and you can replace it with association. How do you guys look at brands?

Sandi Green (11:09.536)
man. so I think of I think of brand as it's it's a sum total of your reputation and you know all of all of the things that you believe in, but taking it kind of down a step a step further as it relates to what we're talking about, I think of I think of brand expression as kind of four in four parts. It's the message, the messenger, the audience, and the channel. And so if you think about it that way, it's you know, what story you're trying to tell, that's your that's your message. Your messenger could be

any number of people, right? It could be a, you know, an affiliate that's, you know, or an influencer that's, you that's it's promoting your product or your service on your behalf. It could be your founder, talking about why they even built the company. It could be your product person, talking about a new launch. It could be your customer success person, saying like, here's why we're excited to solve this other problem. It could be any number of people. so that's message messenger and then audiences to to your point earlier, Matt, it's like who you're trying to reach, like the actual person, not just

Not just, hey, we're trying to reach other B2B companies that are in, you know, that that are in finance that have these problems. It's like, no, there are people who work there. So who are they? Is it the IT guy? And what do you know about that IT guy? Say you have an IT product. Is it an IT guy that's mid-career, that's maybe trying to make his a name for himself, that wants to transform something? You're you're the kind of message you want to give, give to that person is like, you're gonna be the hero here, versus say the opposite, someone who doesn't want to rock the boat, who's like, no one ever got fired for buying.

Buying IBM, which I can't believe I just said that. I'm dating myself. But that person is, hey, no, play it safe. Like we can help you with with risk, right? So that the the message in the the message in the audience is important. And then the channel, which Chris, I know you could talk all day long about channels, right? Like where where do you expect them to see this, right? Is it on YouTube? It is in their podcast feeds. Are they coming to your website? Is it, you know, are there any other places? All those contexts really make make for a very different kind of story that you need to tell and also inform the kind of

Content that you need to produce in order to even make it effective. You don't want an explainer video necessarily playing on a billboard. But you might want something really eye-catching that someone might say, someone might like jump and go, my God, that's really funny, right? Because you know what emotionally resonates with them when they've got 0.2 seconds walking by. But that's how I think about brand. But Chris, well, how do you think about brand?

Chris Frank (13:26.003)
Well, I'll just pick up on one thing you said, which is really you said in the beginning, which is it's which is really about the values. So it's really interesting what happens in marketing sometimes is that the values of the marketing team become disconnected with the values of of who you're trying to sell to. And in that case, we've seen that the the example of that, I think, backfire in the past several years really spectacularly.

And so I I would say in terms of brand, I see it as, and you use this word too, Sandi, which is championing those people that are that you're trying to sell to. And I found that that when a brand does that, when when you define brand as that, something changes within within your ability to reach people and your ability to connect with them. and so we've seen that many times working together, Sandi, I think in in different places. I know, I know Matt, you've probably seen that in video as well.

is that when you connect with them on the level of hey their values and elevating what they're doing and elevating this their story, something something changes in that connection. And and what you do regardless of channel becomes that much more powerful.

Matt Cancino (14:45.368)
Yeah. Your heart's gotta be in the right place, right? for me it's always like how can I serve, right? Like how can I how can Of course the client, but ultimately in my business it's like it's like helping the client serve their clients, right? So

Sandi Green (14:50.66)
Yeah.

Sandi Green (15:06.64)
Yeah, it's powerful stuff, and I think

Matt Cancino (15:07.47)
Chris, I'm I'm go ahead, Samuel. I I'm curious, because I I know that like I also like to think in channels because I think that also drives nar like depending on the channel that you're communicating on, the the content in the story has to be totally different. So what channels in the B2B space have you s have you seen that are effective and what kind of stories

Sandi Green (15:10.948)
No, no, go ahead. Go ahead.

Chris Frank (15:28.39)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Cancino (15:37.139)
are effective on those channels.

Chris Frank (15:41.373)
Yeah, I and you might be referring specifically to short form and long form content. And they they both have their their place and their channels and the application within channels that are different. So I I would say the ones that we've found to be most successful throughout different corporate iterations and all of our clients is A LinkedIn. And I think that's a really interesting one because it gives you

an opportunity, a thought leadership opportunity. So those tend to perform really well in a B2B type of sense. And then we're also seeing YouTube be a great resource as well. Not not just for traffic, right? I would say also for the SEO side and what it can do there. And then there is an engagement I think that happens within that channel that's interesting as well.

Matt Cancino (16:20.088)
Mm.

Chris Frank (16:35.943)
We found that short form video actually performs really well on on YouTube as well, B2B short form, which is really interesting. And and and then I would say tactically w what you can do is find influencers within your industry and find the top half dozen. And then you're splicing in or your your advertising your short form video within the context of their

Matt Cancino (16:42.766)
Wow. Super.

Chris Frank (17:03.633)
of their content, right? And so the short form nature of that video changes a little bit, right? Versus versus just posting on your channel. You have to change it within the context of those videos. So there's nuance to to what video looks like, but those are those are just some examples of of the channels.

Matt Cancino (17:22.19)
Love that.

Sandi, from from your view, what what have you noticed?

Sandi Green (17:30.234)
For channels that perform, I think it goes back to the purpose of the content itself. I think for educ video, if it's video and it's educational in in in if the spirit of it is educational, I think YouTube YouTube is actually an underserved or or an underused channel, especially on B2B. Like if you want to learn something, YouTube that's right, people go to YouTube. And also you know, when it comes to searches, YouTube will pop like YouTube results pop.

pop pretty high. So I think educational video, YouTube, I think thought leadership for B2B is still as much as we, you know, as much as we love it, love and hate LinkedIn, LinkedIn is still a great, a great place to sort of get you know, to get your get the word out. I think there's I think there's an opportunity for direct mail. Believe it or not, she's back. Direct mail is back as a channel.

you gotta use it, use it thoughtfully, use it creatively, et cetera. Like it's you know, it's still messenger, message, audience, like all those things still apply. But if you can, if you can nail those things down and really figure out what your what your person wants, what the person that you're trying to reach wants, direct mail can be incredibly effective. as you know, we pivoted to events this year in person. I look at that as a as a very big growth channel.

just because people's attention spans are just fraying and they're getting smaller and shorter and shorter. So if you can get someone in real life and they're already in the context of thinking about the problem that that the event is looking to to talk about and solve, you're just in a great place to talk to them while they're, you know, while while you while you can get their undivided attention. So I think events are a great, a great channel for that. email I think is is back I think email is like up and up and down.

Again, I feel like you have to you have to be specific. I feel like there's there's you can't let AI write all of your all of your emails. I think I think we've got a backlash going on around that. But the funny thing that I've recently heard, which kind of pleasantly surprised me and also horrified me, is phone calls are back as a channel. And I know they're not a marketing channel. That's really more for the business development bit of it and the sales bit of it. But the good old fashioned pick up the phone and calling someone, that is actually effective. So I imagine at some point.

Sandi Green (19:48.43)
that that tactic or that motion will re resurface and marketing will be responsible for it, especially if especially if marketing has the BDR function with them. So we'll be back to, you know, scripting in content and motions and, you know, all the things around making phone calls. But yeah, phone, I think the old school, the old school tactics are back. And I think part of it's just because we may have we may have OD'd on digital in the last, you know, in the last decade.

Chris Frank (20:11.433)
And you could tell that we we love integrated marketing and experimentation, right? And then that just shows through. And then you have to be that way these days. And you have to be talented enough or have enough broad knowledge or or the willingness to learn in all of those channels to connect them together in really interesting ways. As it pertains to video, it was really interesting what Sandi was saying about direct mail and events. We've seen QR codes heading back to something like microsite around videos.

placing the buyer as the hero at at the center, that those types of microsites perform really well in combination with an integrated campaign like that, which is really fascinating. And I'll just add one more thing. One I one I forgot here on LinkedIn, which is retargeting on your LinkedIn audience audiences works really well with case study, study videos. And so just another couple ideas there around different types of videos.

Matt Cancino (21:08.622)
Yeah, and I think I mean you could do video about everything and what I I I li so I'm like big on recycling in general, but like when it comes to content and and especially when you're investing dollars and and your resources into creating content, I like to think like how can we create one long form YouTube, take the transcript of that, create a thought leadership piece for LinkedIn with a link back to the YouTube that also has a link in there, maybe even on the article

A little bit different with a tweak for your blog post. Now you're hitting SEO on your website. And you got the video that's on YouTube, we got embedded on your website as well. So it's really thinking about almost like, and that's one of the reasons I like the word concept, and the name of our agency is Cult Concepts. Well, that's like you take one concept and then you distribute it in as many channels, and it's because it's all interconnected, right? Nothing's linear anymore.

Your customers not just on Google searching for something and go hop on your website or on YouTube. They might do that. They might find you on LinkedIn, but they're gonna find you somewhere in a web. And then you want that web to be like able to click to each other and you're telling the same thing. You're hitting it, you know, seven, eight, nine, ten times. There's I don't know what the who who coined it, but there is a statistic that's like somebody has to see your

content seven times minimum before they make a decision. And I think it's actually more than that now. Right. So the first time you're talking and do you know say do you do you have the update on that? 'Cause I'd love to

Sandi Green (22:42.158)
It is

Sandi Green (22:48.792)
It's a couple of years old, but it had jumped to like twenty-two times. So we went from seven to twenty-two in I think a decade. And it's probably more Chris, you may sorry to ping pong this, but Chris, you may know the latest stat on that.

Chris Frank (23:00.495)
yeah, I would say in ear in earlier stage startups it's even more. I've seen as as many as thirty six in some of the the recent startups that we've looked at. So it's it's outrageous.

Matt Cancino (23:07.466)
Insane. I I recently discovered a CRM solution called Follk. F O L L K. so they're really going at bat with I don't know if you've heard of Atio, the newer player in in the CRM space as well, obviously B2B product. Atio's a phenomenal product. A very big fan. They have a awesome wow factor, but when Follk was coming to market, I ended up somehow in their funnel.

I don't even know how. And then the founder when as they were scaling emailed me and asked me for feedback. And then I told him, I'm like, dude, I love this about Atio. You get this on your thing and like I'll be a customer. And six seven you know, six months to year later, he actually like they did it. Like it's a very similar feature. And the wow feature that I was looking for was Atio can

We can edit all the stuff out that you guys don't want to talk about specific products, no problem. Right? I forget that. But this is a real story, right? So like Atio, when I was using it, you sign up, you put your email in there, and then it'll take like twelve hours to a day, but it'll go through every single company in your email. And then your CRM is preloaded with every conversation you've had with a company for the last god knows how long. And

I just thought that like the coolest thing. I'm like, my God, this is so cool. Like and then it it scores them using AI, like what whether it's a a good relationship or a bad relationship based on how much you talk to them. Now some like newsletters and stuff like that like pop in there, but you know that that's why you have like a stronger relationship with them. So I think that was just like a really great like example of how to leverage, you know, like a like like a wow moment in

And and and it was obvious blatantly intentional that they developed it that way. So but yeah, no, I folk to to circle back to the to the touch points, like I saw them around and then I wasn't until I got on a call with the founder and then I tried it. I still wasn't a fan. And then they they came out with more features and I'm still on their newsletter, like I'm still getting touch. So to your point, Sandi, about all of your

Matt Cancino (25:30.198)
all the different touch points and email coming back or like, you know, kind of dwindling away and stuff like that. I think that email still has a very like important role in the distribution of content. so Jessica, you know Jessica, that's how we met, right? Jessica Martin's a a fractional CMO and I know her from the franchise phase. She recently started a newsletter. She started a newsletter and she does podcasts as well.

Sandi Green (25:45.604)
Yes.

Matt Cancino (25:59.278)
And one of her newsletters led me to a LinkedIn article that she wrote and it was phenomenal. And like I think about Jessica at least once a week because I'm on her newsletter, whether I read it or not. And Jessica loves to write, by the way. I mean they're just books. And she's good though. But like they are so I don't read them. I skim them a lot of the times. But like she's still top of mind. It's still relevant. I know that like I'm looking at her for

any referrals to like fractional services for CMOs and stuff like that. So I thought that was relevant.

Chris Frank (26:32.425)
Yeah, that's a that's a good call out. I've I've seen that work really well. In in fact, if you look at some of the most recent channel research of what's working in the channel now, now that AI has taken over quite a bit, right? The the majority of of you know the beginning of the buying cycle happens within AI now, within an AI answer type of environment. It's really fascinating that

Companies, I think it's about 41% of them typic about 41% of the business is typically coming from SEO or GEO now. But some of those other channels that you that you mentioned are changing dramatically to be able to catch up with and be companions with that. So part of that is is thought leadership. And so I think what you used to see with B2B companies, you know, the past decade or so is that the CEOs are are absent from

from any sort of meaningful presence on on social, right? And I think with a summer of the s particularly younger founders that they have a much stronger presence. And then I'm seeing a progression in that now where they are doing things like the newsletters. They are doing things like direct mail outreach that includes thought leadership, right? Or or direct message outreach within LinkedIn. So those things are working, right?

And building that audience, the the mechanics has have changed a little.

Sandi Green (28:01.744)
Yeah, I think the mechanics have changed, but trust is trust is still the underlying is still the undercurrent. It's like you to build trust with your audience. It's not just, it's really not even about authority or credibility as much anymore. It's trust first. And so I I do think just to piggyback on your on your point, that's part of the reason why you know, why why some of these other channels are coming back and why, you know, that kind of thought leadership and you know, leveraging a couple of different channels to get your get the word out in a few different ways.

Matt Cancino (28:02.008)
Yeah, I I thought

Chris Frank (28:06.396)
Absolutely.

Sandi Green (28:28.822)
is is becoming, you know, more of a more of a tactic and more of a more of a place where you'll see like the founder kind of content. But sorry, Matt, you were gonna say something?

Matt Cancino (28:36.886)
Well, I I just love that you said trust because at the end of the day that's what a good story does, right? Like it bridges that gap from like total stranger to like now I feel something, now I n now I think that I can trust that person, right? And like you you brought up events earlier, right? And I think events are so the world is round, right? You said calls cold calls are coming back, letters are coming back, local events are coming back, you know, so like in this digital age

We're starting to see that a lot of people are are depending on these non digital avenues in order to make decisions. And events, in my opinion, are totally under utilized. Because there's like hundreds of people that go, they're just looking for something to do on the weekend, right? In the franchise space. one of our clients, F V expositions, puts on franchise shows all over the all over the country and they sell franchises doing that. Why? The founders are

Sometimes even there of a of a small brand or an emerging brand, you shake hands, you're gonna give somebody, you know, tens of thousands of dollars for that specifically, you're gonna do that. But same thing with tech shows, right? We have I'm forgetting the name of it, but here in West Palm, there's an event coming up that I'm gonna go to. and it's it's it's actually about quantum computing. Which, by the way, totally different thing to talk about. But can you believe that like

Sandi Green (29:58.257)
nice.

Matt Cancino (30:02.744)
Quantum computing is even like a like a real topic, you know, like it's like it was like sci-fi five years ago. You know, like, no, that's impossible. You know, yeah, like quantum computers, like so but anyway, events are very, very important. And then also a lot of the times, like the showrunners aren't telling enough stories of the event, right? So like there's

Sandi Green (30:09.892)
Very Star Trek.

Matt Cancino (30:31.266)
There's hundreds of people there and each one of those people like have their own little story. Actually like I remember being like a kid and I I still have this thought to this day when I'm driving or like I but I I'm thinking specifically of a time like I was in the car and I just like remember seeing everybody else in their cars and just thinking like, Wow, all those people are like going somewhere. They all have their own little story and they're all they're they're, you know, on their own little journey. Well it's the same thing I think it everywhere, all the time, like events.

You literally just tap somebody on the shoulder and ask them why they're here, they'll tell you. And if you put that behind a recording, now you have an authentic story that you can use to that somebody's gonna relate to. So

Sandi Green (31:15.418)
Yeah. And I think that goes back to really making sure that if you're when you're thinking about telling your story, thinking about your audience, that you capture something that's a little bit more personal. And that really will help you help, you know, kind of help you resonate. And the why are you there, it's a perfect example of that's something that's, you know, that's that's somewhat personal. It's not, you know, it's not about not about anybody's company, not about anybody's brand, not even about anybody's problem. It's really more like why'd you show up today? to me that just also speaks to

you know, good storytelling helps kind of, you know, build trust, as we've been saying, build, you know, build, build awareness for for your solutions, but it also helps you build community with your audience, right? The the more you can kind of be authentic and share, share stories that resonate, really talk about things that are really important to to your audience in the way that's important to them, make it relevant to them, the better chance you have of them remembering you and thinking about you, you know, when, you know, if and when they need.

They need your solution. And if and when they, you know, refer, you know, need to refer to s to someone else or need to make a recommendation to someone else. The best brands are the ones, in my view, the ones where where they know that, hey, if a customer leaves our client and they're gonna go get a new job someplace else, they're gonna call me. Like I'm gonna get, you know, they're gonna keep calling me every time every time they go someplace else because they because they trust me. They, you know, they they trust us, they rely on us, and they've had a good experience and they know that regardless.

of what happens, they know that, you know, this is a this is a brand that this is a brand that gets it and this is the brand that can solve a problem. And to me that's that's to me that's the ultimate litmus test, right? Is that kind of that kind of word of mouth, that kind of loyalty. And yeah, that's my that's my two cents about that one.

Matt Cancino (33:00.174)
Do you guys have any specific stories and I and I can go first of like storytelling with a client that like was pretty effective even if it's not in the B2B space? Like I said, I'll go first. For me, we just started working with a brand called Goat Foods. They're an e commerce brand. Actually it's kind of techy. Like they buy like chocolate.com, liquors.com. They own all of these like one word domains and then they build that is the brand, right? The domain is the brand.

So chocolate.com, for example, sells chocolate, right? and they have a massive facility. But instead of just selling chocolate candy bars, their best selling product on for chocolate dot com right now is one called Grandma Ann's Chocolate Chunks. And the whole it's completely based on a story of Grandma Anne and how she had to she would chunk up chocolate and bring them to every family gathering. And

And so like we just filmed a a commercial for them and we're doing a bunch of content where like we sat the whole family down. Great grandma Grandma Anne unfortunately passed away, but her daughter, her daughter's son, all the way down to like the the great granddaughter's the great great granddaughter and she's like three years old or something like that. And we just kinda went around the table and the chocolate was out there and it's a pretty cool concept like that. But that's just like a

a solid con s like for me, like story, like yes, it's the chocolate, but it's also about the story behind the chocolate. And that's going and that we're doing thirty second spots on Fox and it's just selling off it's flying off the shelves because it's pulling on some of those heart strings. Have you guys do you guys have any stories similar or examples?

Sandi Green (34:49.89)
And so Matt, first of all, now I want chocolate. So thank you for that. I think that's a I think that's a really good example of kind of using lore and legend for you know, as part of as part of story. So I love that. I love that they that they that that client recognized that and sort of use used it to really great effect. and yeah, I am gonna need to look them up when we hang up and see see if I can get some of that chocolate chunk. I think for us, one of the first clients that that

Matt Cancino (34:53.875)
Right.

Matt Cancino (35:00.375)
Mm.

Sandi Green (35:19.172)
that we worked on had a very, they had a very like niche, very specific, very uber technical problem that they solved in the in the security space. And one of the things that we were trying to to to sort of draw out of them was like, why is this such a big deal? Like why is it why is it so complicated to do? And and of of all of the years that that that your audience has been suffering through this problem and doing workarounds to this problem, why has no one solved it yet?

Chris Frank (35:35.464)
Mm-hmm.

Sandi Green (35:49.188)
And the thing that came out of that story, we we went in thinking we would get good positioning, like, hey, this is how it's different. This is why you need this solution, other, you know, as an alternative, the four other things that you're cobbled together to using. What we actually ended up with was the founder story. And that was 10 times more powerful. So what we ended up really, really focusing on was it didn't so much matter that they solved a very specific problem in a very specific way. What mattered was

Matt Cancino (36:05.774)
Mm-hmm.

Matt Cancino (36:15.747)
Yeah.

Sandi Green (36:17.294)
The founders that built the built the solution, and I can't name their names, unfortunately, because I would I I would shout their names all day long if I could. But the reason why that this was such a such a a big problem was because they experienced it entry level at their first jobs. So they were entry-level IT people, they were experiencing this problem. It was the bane of their existence. They were talking about nights and weekends and holidays where they were always just trying to like do this this stupid work around.

And one day, and this is So Hero's journey, they turned to each other and said, There's gotta be a better way to do this. Let's like, instead of working on the workarounds, let's work on a a solution. And that's how they ended up. That was like the origin story of their company. They hadn't told that story to anyone except the investors. And Chris and I were like, That's the story. That's the homepage. Like, that is it. I don't even care what the thing does. Like, tell me what happened when you when you guys figured out how to solve this. So, so I think.

Matt Cancino (36:48.986)
Yeah.

Sandi Green (37:10.222)
I think the moral of the story is you're you're the the story that can really impact someone can can come from any number of ways. Sometimes it's just the origin of the problem. And sometimes it's the it's the level of it's the level of reven resonance that your audience gets because they have been there with you. Like if you have lived this problem with them, there's something about look being able to look someone in the eye or look in the camera screen, you know, look in the camera and say, I have lived this with you and I have solved this for you. I can't wait for you to try it.

So that's probably our best example of like a story that kind of took it, it was it was very powerful when we launched them. but it took a it took on a life of its own. Like we I don't Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't even think we talked about the problem or the product in that scenario, right? It was all like it was just the founders.

Chris Frank (37:57.158)
Yep. Yep. And it just it just resonated. I think we found at that company in particular that over thirty, thirty, thirty six percent of all of their opportunities emanated from a touch within that social channel. And and those those stories were a huge part of that.

Sandi Green (38:19.162)
Yeah, that video, that video did work. And it was really just tell me how tell me how you ended up trying to solve of of the million problems you can solve. Why'd you solve that one? And I think the I think the other thing that resonated was they were all really passionate about it. Like they got annoyed on the like the video you could see them being like, and then there was weekends and like there was all this emotion that kind of was genuine that came through in that. And that was I think that really resonated with with the with the audience that they were trying to reach because it was a gnarly problem.

Matt Cancino (38:33.326)
Maybe that's true. We have to trust as well.

You feel the strong

Matt Cancino (38:49.912)
So I I had a a thought come in from the eco and that's usually what happens with my brain. I'll have a thought come in and then it just kinda comes right out. I can't remember the name of the Instagram channel, but it's it it's a and I can't remember the product. So how good it is for but it's not a problem that I solve. But I think that I I I follow them from like a content perspective, but they do a really good job of like using humor.

And telling a bunch of funny stories that like I think a lot like people wouldn't do and it's like it's like a tech bro. and he they do humoristic skits about using a like a Mac Mini and like and using Claude like Claude bots and like to run the whole thing and they'll just do a skit about like firing everybody, like you know, found their walks in like, hey guys that you're all fired.

ClaudeBot can do it, right? And then like puts it down in it and and then he like starts talking to the computer and like it doesn't, you know, do what he wants it to do. But I think that storytelling, like something super genuine, super and and that's my favorite, of course, is when there's a story to find the story, tell the story, it's impactful, it resonates, great. But oftentimes sometimes that's not there, and that's just reality of of some businesses, you know. So I I do want to kind of touch on that.

If you're stor if you feel like you don't have a story, of course I'm gonna tell you like, you know, the the hoorah, like, you do have a story, bro, you matter, right? But also if you genuinely do not have a story, there's still a way to storytell. There's still a way to resonate with your audience through either humor or non traditional ways of marketing to that person. and the story could be something as simple

You know, s a value that I hold near and dear to my heart is experience. Right? Like for me, it's all about experience. If you call us, we're gonna answer the phone. We don't do AI and well, actually my iPhone does automatically AI answer and it screens and it's kind of annoying, but I don't know how to shut it off, so sorry. just text me. But you know, I will call back, right? Like I I spend a lot of the time on my phone, that's probably like eighty percent of my day.

Matt Cancino (41:12.622)
that or talking directly to customers, but it's because of experience. I think that in the video space, by the way, in general, when you go to try and create a video or create content or storytell, oftentimes people go straight to tacticians or like like tech technicians, not tacticians. they'll go straight to a videographer, right? And a videographer is awesome. Wonder I have videographers that work that I work with

Daily, I love videographers. I pretend to be a videographer sometimes when I need to be, right? But videographers are not always storytellers. They're not thinking about the bigger picture. Right? So we gotta zoom out a lot of times. If you're if you don't have a story and you th and but you wanna create content, you wanna tell stories, think about okay, what how can I relate to my audience? What do what would they think is funny or what

Can I do skits? Is that is there something about that? Can I talk about the experience? Is there something about that? Come up with a strategy or talk to somebody that can help you come up with a strategy. That's when you talk to a marketer, right? There's there's lots of marketers out there. You talk to a marketer and then they'll be like, All right, this is your macro story. Now let's go in and film a micro story of that macro story. So I thought that was relevant.

Sandi Green (42:37.582)
That. Matt, is that something that Cult Concepts does with clients? Do you help with narrative and strategy?

Matt Cancino (42:46.786)
Yeah, we do. So we help with both. So like interestingly enough, for startups, oftentimes they need help with narrative and the strategy. Think macro first and then go into tactics. But when it comes to larger organizations, oftentimes we're working with CMOs in order to execute a specific vision. Let's say it's a 30-second spot on Fox. Okay?

Well, in the example of Grandma Anne's, we had to film within somebody's entire family. So as you can imagine, there's a lot of trust that goes into that. It's not just show up with a camera, shoot, it's plan. It's from the CMO. Their vis actually from the CEO, the CEO wants to do something. CMO is like, okay, this is realistic. Then he's like, okay, now help me execute.

And then we have to plan how to execute and then we actually execute and then of course edit. Right? So that's just that's pretty tactical. It's pretty like in there how how that works. But that so in that example, we're not helping so much with the narrative of grandma and that narrative is already there, but we're helping with how are we going to execute creating a commercial about grandma and and what like and then you have to

make the narrative clear to the people in a spot or telling helping you tell that story. A tactical approach for like, let's say like a you know, somebody who's not a startup, but on their way, you have a few employees in there and each of those employees needs to be on the same page. We'll just keep using the example of chocolate because I feel like it's very relatable. And you can think about your product like chocolate, right? So like if you if you're trying to sell chocolate

And it's Grandma Ann's chocolate in this case, whether it's a SaaS or you know, whatever kind of product or service you're trying to do. What do you does everybody know the story of Grandma Ann the same way? If you were to go and ask, hey, what's Grandma Ann's story? Grandma Ann used to chunk up the chocolate. And then you ask somebody else, Grandma Ann used to bring like dark chocolate to to Thanksgiving. Well hold on a second, bro. That's not the same story. Right? Like like why aren't we on the same page here?

Matt Cancino (45:11.628)
And I would argue that if you ask your team what the story is, 'cause and I know this because our our my organization struggles with this and it's something that I'm always trying to wrap my head around, how can you get all of your ducks into a row, aligned, and steering in the same direction? The answer to that, unfortunately or fortunately for us, whatever it is, is oftentimes getting somebody outside of the boat to yell at you and say, Hey, you're rowing in the wrong direction.

Right? Because everybody else is in the boat. You're all you know, you're you're rowing. You're trying to you're you're you're trying to lead the boat. And this is something that for us, like I I contracted with recently with somebody to redo the icon for our you know, we're we're we're we have a cult icon and we did it internally. It took us six months and we still hate it. We have super talented graphic designers. Super talented, like

Like I love our graphic designers. I love the talent that we have internally. I'm super grateful for it. But I had to find somebody outside to work on our thing because and and pay dollars for that. So that way me and my co founder are bought in and then we're like, This is this is it. This is what we're gonna rock with for a minimum of two years and then we can revisit it, you know? But but yeah, I think

I think that was a cool story. What do you guys think?

Sandi Green (46:42.128)
Good story. Good story. I think we got enough to wrap here. So, Matt, where can folks find you if they're interested in up in their game on story, talking about, you know, how to up how to think about video and incorporating that into their into their overall strategy. Like where's the where's the best place for folks to find you? And we'll drop a link in the obviously we'll drop a link in the show notes too.

Matt Cancino (47:07.118)
So Colt Concepts on Instagram, it's Colt and then like the horse and concepts plural on Instagram, also Coltconcepts.com, and my personal email is matt at coltconcepts.com. feel free to shoot me an email if I can be of assistance at all, I'm here to help.

Sandi Green (47:29.296)
Awesome, awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining us. I think that's it for today. Everybody will put show notes with contact information, or excuse me, contact information in our show notes, and we will see you next time. Bye, everyone.

Sandi Green (47:47.312)
Cool. All right. Don't hang up yet because yeah, hang on one sec.

Matt Cancino (47:48.78)
It is it still recording? It looks like it's still recording.

Chris Frank (47:53.04)
Yeah. The the way that it works is don't don't shut the window. Once she shuts it off, don't don't shut

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